Queen+of+Water+Part3

= This page will be for Discussion Question #3. = = Book - //The Queen of Water// Discussion Part 3: Reading should have been completed by __January 12th.__ = ==== == Discussion #3: Initial and Secondary Postings due by Monday, January 21st. == === //This page is editable. Simply click on the edit tab in the upper right to begin typing on this page. When you are done, be sure to hit the SAVE button.// Please include your name and type in any color but this shade of blue. All MAD comments will be in this color. Use the "T" with the color globe on it in the tool bar to change the color of your text. Please type your questions below the dotted line. === ** ========================================================================================================== **Example**: "Your Name" - This would be my initial Post that would be between 100 - 150 words only. "Classmate's Name" - This would then be the 75 - 100 word response or comment made by a classmate using a different color that appears within ====== marks. This will help us keep our discussions organized. =========================================================================================================== == **__Discussion Question #3__:** > ** ========================================================================= **
 * This page is editable. Simply click on the edit tab in the upper right to begin typing on this page. When you are done, be sure to hit the SAVE button. Please include your name and type in any color but this shade of blue. All MAD comments will be in this color. Use the "T" with the color globe on it in the tool bar to change the color of your text. Please type your questions below the dotted line.- ] **__Posting Directions:__** Keep all initial posts between 100 - 150 words and responses to classmate's between 75 - 100 words. Please adhere to these word counts. [Note: If you type your response in Word, you can highlight your post, go to Tools on the menu bar, then select Word Count from the drop down menu to determine how long you post is.] IMPORTANT: After you write your initial post, end with a series of dashes or === signs so that each person's post can be split from one another. When you RESPOND/COMMENT on a classmates post, type within the dashes of their original post. **See the example below.**
 * 1) ** What are Virginia's conflicting feelings about her ethnic and social identity (mestiza vs. indígena, poor vs. well-off) throughout the book? Discuss her shifting feelings in terms of culture, food, education, economic class, society, clothing, traditions, etc. What connection can you make to your own background or that of your students? Ex. Students from homes of different financial means, ELL students, students of color, students from different ethnic backgrounds, etc. Has this story impacted how you will interact with your students? How you will view others when you travel, etc. Please reflect on these "difficult" questions and respond. **
 * Nicole: **
 * I could see Virginia’s conflict with identity right from the start. While she is living with her parents she often dreams of having enough food, or living a different life. Throughout the story she also talks about how as a younger child she would pretend she had her own business and was successful. When she is sold to the Doctorita and realizes that she will not be living the life she expected her thoughts shift back to her life with her parents. **
 * I could see many similarities to what almost every child/teenager experiences in their lifetime. Our students want to “fit in”, wear the right clothes, have the best things, get embarrassed by their parents, or imagine what their life would be like if only…. **
 * Our students begin experimenting with their identity before they enter elementary school. They are competitive in every way, from academics, participation, games, clothing, electronics, stories, etc. **
 * Dan N**
 * Nicole, I agree that Virginia has wanted a different life, and I also agree that most children and teenagers want to be like others, to not stand out, and to have what others have. It does start early. In a privileged community like ours, the pressures are strong. We have a big responsibility, just like the students' parents do. We need to help kids to know that material things are not important. There will always be someone with more, and also always someone with less. Instead of competing with one another about "things" students could learn to use their competitive urges in healthy ways, such as sports.**
 * Nicole, I agree that Virginia has wanted a different life, and I also agree that most children and teenagers want to be like others, to not stand out, and to have what others have. It does start early. In a privileged community like ours, the pressures are strong. We have a big responsibility, just like the students' parents do. We need to help kids to know that material things are not important. There will always be someone with more, and also always someone with less. Instead of competing with one another about "things" students could learn to use their competitive urges in healthy ways, such as sports.**

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================================================================================= Andrea: Virginia is very critical of Matilde and Santiago's physical features. When Virginia meets them, she describes her sister and Santiago as short and stocky. In Milford, we have a growing population of Ecuadorians. They wear their shawls and colorful clothing as the indigenous do in Ecuador. I wondered why so many of the indigenous were short. I read that due to their heavy diet of carbs and little protein, many Ecuadorians did not grow to be very tall. Also, some indigenous are described as being quite patient while others are known to be more direct. Virginia exemplifies this idea when she //flushed as his directness (when// her biological father spoke to Don Carlos - an indigenous to a mestizo).

I was also impressed by the severity of the years of abuse of Virginia and how she acted as so typically of one who is abused - both emotionally and physically - when she was making the decision to leave and return to her family. So many of the youth in the USA have such angst while trying to find their identity, but their search pales in light of what Virginia experienced. On page 242, Virginia questions the historical influence of abuse that exists in families. I wonder how much abuse of women and children still exists in Ecuador and if there are agencies that try to help and protect these people. Virginia goes back and forth in her mind as to whether or not she wants to stay with "these people." Everywhere, she feels as if she is an outsider. The one thing that El Doctorita and Don Carolos did give Virginia was the desire and will to be educated. Her own family does not understand this desire, but as Virginia later states, “My revenge will be getting an education and having my own career. One day she’ll (Doctorita) see that she’s wrong. One day she’ll ask for my forgiveness. In the end, I’ll win.” I love that. I love Virginia’s strength. “As I finish Soledad’s story, I know that despite her tragedies, she will go far in life, even though she will have to live with this piece of sadness inside her forever. She will have to make her way alone in the world, but she is smart enough to do it.” page 252

On page 229, I found a metaphor that resonated with me: //I pop the last section of tangerine in my mouth. I like the juicy, sweet part, but have to force the white, stringy part down my throat//. Virginia compares the sweet oranges to a bitter taste as the sweetness in her life - her knowing her place vs the bitterness of the ‘white’ people with whom she lived. Querer es poder, To want is to be able to. As for interacting and viewing others, this story has not really changed how I address people. Teaching ESL, being the target of others who want to discriminate against people who are not the same religion as they are, and traveling have already widened my world. However, what this story has done for me is to re-awaken the sleeping part of me that tends to accept things the way they seem/look without delving deeper - beyond appearances. In Hopkinton, most of our students come from "good" families. But, there are always those that we 'assume' are okay - when, in reality, these students' home lives are anything but secure.

**Shari - response to Andrea - I like that you brought in "Querer es poder" and I wanted to add to your explanation here. "Poder" means "to be able to" but the noun "poder" is the Spanish word for "power." To want is to be able to... and ALSO, but __wanting is powerful__. This could be problematic, if you want something so badly that it dominates your thoughts and holds power over your life. But in Virginia's case, she wants so badly to be part of the Doctorita's family (at least for a time), to be accepted by her own family, to be Queen of Water, to be herself...and she is able to accomplish all of these things. A strong desire for something can create a force to be reckoned with!**

**I also think you are right that we assume that our students in Hopkinton are all happy and healthy at home because they are clean, well-dressed, and well-fed. But we all know this is not always the case. I share your desire to awaken the sleeping part of me, and I want to add to your sentiment. I hope I can find a Maria Virginia--a young man or woman with such an incredible spirit, sense of curiosity, thirst for knowledge, and will to survive--some day among my students.**

**Lauren K. - response to Andrea -** I was also in awe of Virginia’s strength, determination, and value of education. This reminds me of a short story, “The Scholarship Jacket,” that my students read this year. In the story, a high school student is discriminated against due to her ethnicity and socioeconomic status. The school board institutes policies meant to prevent her from receiving certain scholarships. When discussing this story with a group of students and talking about the cycle of poverty, one student thoughtfully said, “Wow. Education really is important.” This was one of those moments that makes any headache associated with our work disappear. I am excited to use this reading and travel experience to continue to bring new perspectives and experiences into the classroom. =================================================================================================================

Shari M. - All of Virginia’s conflicting feelings about her identity stem from her desire to feel like she fully belongs somewhere. But she is special, just more //vivísima// than anyone else she has ever known. As the novel draws to a close, things finally start to turn around for Virginia as she comes to terms with her own uniqueness. While her father is hugging her, she determines that “inside this safe space” she will try to return home, “to figure out who I am and who I might someday become” (Resau 243). At no point in the story is the culmination of her search for self more clear than in her Queen of Water speech and its aftermath, as she realizes that Matilde’s words about her are true: she is “someone with spunk, someone who lets nothing stop her from reaching her dreams” (Resau 322). This is a coming-of-age story as well as a fascinating account of a life.

I think we must all feel identity conflicts from time to time; for example, I will admit that in the past, I have attempted to hide my middle-class background from intellectuals I am trying to impress. What I take away from Maria Virginia’s story is that an individual’s identity includes so much more than where she comes from, or her short-term circumstances. Neither of these limit a person's potential to be great. Identity is shaped by a person's spirit and capacity for love, not what she looks like or how much money she has. This is an understanding that I will be proud to share with my students, who may insist they “can’t” do something because it hasn’t seemed possible before, or that they don’t fit in so they should just give up. Determination and a strong will are character traits that serve each and every one of us well, and Maria Virginia has these in spades! She is a model for children and adults alike.

Merideth E (in response to Shari M) - You state so clearly the real source of what makes us special: //"Identity is shaped by a person's spirit and capacity for love..."// What a great message to proudly post in an educational space. It celebrates each of us as we are, and encourages us to simply celebrate life rather than hide from it or try to change it!

Discussion #3

Lynne Peloquin

Virginia stayed in touch with her ideas and feelings and throughout her life and tried to integrate them with her culture of birth. It reminded me so much of the current social perspective taking theories and assimilation that we sometimes teach and expect from students.

In social perspective taking we often ask students to get their bearings by observing their environment and considering how they are perceived by others. In these contrasting settings, Virginia was expected to conform to social/cultural norms. In assimilation, the early METCO programs expected inner city students to seamlessly join suburban communities/schools. (What ‘looks like’ bullying in the city is very different from what it ‘looks like’ in the suburbs.) It’s hard to appreciate the personal pressure it places on an individual (Virginia) to move between such different experiences; yet she persisted, despite many personal and cultural obstacles. “I’ll find a way,” she would say to herself; until her hopes formed dreams and her dreams became reality.

Katelyn Barry - (Response to Lynne) - Also having had an opportunity to work with METCO students, this divide from inner-city customs and cultures can also be a very shocking transition for the students. I worked in Brookline for two years where the METCO program was run very efficiently because the administration helped the students assimilate to the Brookline culture. Each summer before a METCO child started Kindergarten, they were required to attend a 4-week summer program to learn some of the classroom cultures and expectations in Brookline. It has shown the students have been successfully transitioned for many years, partially because of this transitional program which was so important for laying the foundation to the start of schooling.

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Anytime we transition into a new phase of life, we develop new elements to our character and personality. It can be difficult to reconcile the new elements with the old. Virginia had a lovely way of coming to an understanding about her identity – “I am the served and I am the server. I am queen and I am dishwasher. I am rich and poor, indigena and mestiza, and no one can put me in a box.” (pg. 330) It seemed like it took the acceptance from others in order for Virginia to accept herself and her identity. I often see this in the middle schoolers with whom I work. They are in a phase in which they’re trying on different identities, and at times, they come to embrace parts of their personality once others have shown acceptance of it. I wonder how we can help students accept themselves without relying on the opinions of others. This story has made me realize how ignorant I have been to class and ethnic issues when I have traveled. I need to be much more cognizant of these important cultural issues when traveling.
 * Lauren K.: **

Toby Adams responding to Lauren- Lauren this was my favorite part of the book as well. I found the quote to be true for so many teenagers who are new to this country or have grown up with one culture at home and one culture at school. They are who they want to be an if they had the attitude Virginia had I feel that many of them would experience more success.

- Dan N--Virginia has always wanted to belong. She finally realizes that she is unique. She is a mix of many things, and she finally accepts that. She is like many of us. But it took others' accepting and seeing this in her for Virginia to recognize it herself. In my own life, I have always valued the different parts of my heritage. I'm proud of my family, my Irish roots, and I've always had an amazing family behind me. For that reason, I don't recall having too much of an identity concern as a child. Maybe that is because I knew I was loved or maybe that is because I fit in to what was expected--school, sports, social life. Or maybe it's because I didn't care that much whether I did or not. I went to a college where people were a lot like me, with similar values and upbringings. All of this may be part of why I am confident and content with who I am. Now I am excited to learn about other cultures, and as much as I respect differences, I know we are all more alike than we may seem.
 * Andrea: I, too, agree with Lauren. I can also bring this idea down to a more personal level. Although not as intense as it was in middle school, I often see myself relying on others' opinions before coming to terms with an issue. People whom we trust can give us outlooks that we can't see because we are so deep into the situation. I'm glad I have honest, caring friends because without them, I would be lost! Virginia's struggle was entirely her own - she had no one to confide in and help her. What little she took from those who gave a cursory, caring glance or comment - well, she certainly did have to rely on herself for her success. **

Katelyn Barry - (Response to Dan) - I think as educators, it is our duty to show every child they are unique and special in different ways. Everyone being the “same” isn’t always a good thing. We need to give our students the confidence and the skills to be strong, independent individuals and hopefully they will learn that diversity is an asset. ---

Toby Adams- Virginia has conflicting feeling about her ethnic and social identity. Her shifting feelings are what we all feel at some point in our lives to some degree. There is usually some type of conflict between who you once were and those expectations and who you have become. This book made me think that there are some "pieces" of my life that I hold separate. Some pieces of myself that I am embarrassed of or ashamed of and maybe I should accept them for only a part of who I am and hold onto them with pride that this is who I am too. I can be all of the things I want to and I am all of the things that I have been.

As far as reflecting on my students I feel that my experiences with ELL students and students who have a far different culture at home, Virginia's experiences match their or what I saw. It is important that when the students come to school they are not expected to give up or feel ashamed of their home lives and their parents. When Virginia's parents were at the parade to see her as the queen and she thought not to acknowledge them reminded me of the look I have seen on many student's faces when their parents come to the school for events. It is important for us as tour guides in a new culture that our students see us give respect and dignity to their families, their cultures and understand that they like us have many pieces to themselves, some which are very complex. I hope I use this understand not in my travels but in my daily travels through life.

lynne p-- Toby, I liked your comments. It is so hard in the teen/parent relationship to sometimes be tolerant of the generational differences. The cultural and socioeconomic differences create additional emotional tension; particularly for school aged students for whom social relationships are so important.

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Katelyn Barry - Virginia’s struggles started the day she was born into an indígenas family. She understood at a young age the divide between the mestizos community and the indígenas people. Virginia knew this divide of socio-economic class runs deep in your blood and is hard to change. Unfortunately, this is not too far from what really happens in lower socio-economic communities here in Massachusetts. Working in Brookline for two years I was able to see how money and family status can divide or unify a family. I learned that if your family has enough money to keep you invested in school and enrichment activities, you will most likely turn out to follow your parent or guardians footsteps. However, if you come from a home with little money or emphasis on education, students will often not graduate college or get into troubling situations. Thus, I believe from the schools perspective, there should be a huge importance on education since ultimately good grades and success in school can help any student pave their own path in life.

Suzanne Missert in response to Katelyn;: Two different groups came to mind when I read your discussion. My first thought was Asian families who come with little money or knowledge of English. There are so many examples of Asian immigrants excelling in school. The family emphasizes education, but often does't have money. My second thought was about many immigrant families I have worked with coming from Latin America and Brazil. Often, the parents have not gone very far in school, but one prevalent reason for coming to the U.S. is a better education for their children. Unfortunately they often struggle to know how to help their children navigate the school system and do well, and the children often don't succeed. I see very few immigrant parents who don't emphasize the importance of education and wanting a better life for their children. -- Suzanne Missert: When Virginia went to live with La Doctorita and her husband, she felt very drawn to their culture and materialism. She imagined herself fitting in and being one of them; one of the family. However, she always was unsettled with this and knew she couldn't deny her roots. It took a long time for Virginia to make sense of her two indentities and feel whole. Obviously, no one wants to be as poor as Virginia originally was, and no one wants to feel shame about their family and background. Yet, Virginia was growing up in a society that was looking down on her and judging her as inferior. When people related to her on a personal level, they found themselves drawn to her and were able to value her talents and integrity.

Weymouth is going through a change, to which many families who are from the town are resistant. A recent example is when we held a parents night for the Break Free from Depression program we are initiating with 8th grade students at Chapman. I worked diligently to get a translator (Portuguese) and reach out to Brazilian families. Some attended, but were shooshed and stared at as the translator sat in a back corner with them translating. We had to go to a separate room and do a different presentation.

========= Merideth E - Throughout the book, Virginia struggles with her identity. Three quotes in the final portion of her story summarize the transition from confusion and conflict to realization and acceptance: I felt a deep emotion for Virginia as she transformed in this final stage of the book, and even silently cheered through my tears as she finally confronted Doctorita and Don Carlos. As educators, we need to be aware of these secret fears and passions are students carry with them to school each day, and do everything we can to help them reach their dreams.
 * on page 303, "It's exhausting being two different people." Virginia communicates her life-long struggle between accepting her indigenous heritage and her desire to be someone popular and wealthy - which in her mind can't possibly harmonize.
 * on page 329, she begins to accept her indigenous roots. "It's as thought he fabric scraps of my self are being sewn together, in tiny, almost invisible stitches, with the finest of threads."
 * on the final page of her story, page 342, Virginia embraces her heritage and understands rather than impeding her dreams, it facilitated them. "Now I see that sometimes the person you through was your enemy was really your teacher, or even, in an odd way, your savior. I see that wishes come true, in roundabout ways. I see that if you try to fit someone into a box, she might slip through the seams like water and become her own river."

After reading Andrea's surprise about the Afro-Ecuadorian population, I searched for a bit more information on both this population and the indigenous populations in Ecuador. I was also surprised to read that today, despite the cultural mix and general acceptance of the indigenous heritage, there still exists an undercurrent of disrespect and prejudice. If anyone is interested in the history and current state of Afro-Ecuadorians, PBS has a great series, available free online or via the PBS iPad app. ========================================================================================================== Janine Panechelli

Virginia spent a life time under the rule of Doctorita and Don Carlos hearing that indigenas were stupid and worthless, and that her parents did not want her. As a result, Virginia hides her true identity until she is lost even to herself. When she is approached by Susana, a well educated indigenas, to enter the competition of Sara Nusta, she realizes as she says, "how tired of hiding and keeping secrets" she is.(p.295) With some hesitation Virginia agrees to the competition. There is something familiar about the clothes, the look, but she has buried her roots for so long she is fearful to embrase them. As Virginia begins her speech, the truth of her life unfolds to the world. For the first time Virginia speaks from the heart, with no filter. As the Queen of Water she comes face to with her past, the Doctorita and Don Carlos, and her father a poor indigena. She is finally free.

As a teacher I try to remember the power words can have on my students. School can be the one place of safety for them. The words spoken to Virginia from a very early age left scars that she carried for a lifetime. My prayer each day is that I would not say anything to a student that would wound them so deeply.

====================================================================================================== Shari F.  I felt like I was going back and forth with Virginia on whether she should go back to her indigenous ways or be a Mestiza. It was clear that she was straddling the fence an had good arguments for both. There was this underlying pull to go back to la Doctorita but she never did...I did not know which way she was going to end up. It seems that she found peace in her final decision to be able to be both- which meant being a proud indigena. I found this interesting because as we grow up, as we witness this in our students and ourselves, we are constantly trying to identify and classify ourselves into which group or role we fit into. It was very clear and eye opening for me that there is no reason that we can not be "both"...in other words why are we constantly looking to fit into a certain role based upon where we live, education, careers, etc.? ======================================================================================================

Katy W. I felt bad for Virginia and her struggle throughout the book. What makes her identity struggle so tough was that she did not have anyone to guide or talk to about it. When she was uprooted from her life with her family she was plunked down into unfamiliar territory. Her new life working for exposed her to a way of life and people she may never have known. It was this exposure that shaped the woman she became. As her role of a servant though I think it made it tough to figure out where in the social ladder she fit. She was not content to stay as a servant but she had no one to help guide her to rise above it. That is what makes her so remarkable. She is such a strong woman to live through adversity, rise above it and find a way to eventually accept who she was as a person. The same way that Virginia struggled to figure out her place in life many people try to figure out where they fit in, in this world. What group of people do you identify with, where do you feel most at ease and yourself. It is a life long struggle we all face, trying to find our place in this world.