Queen+of+Water+Part2

= Great job on the initial postings everyone! This page will be for discussion question #2. Due to the busy holiday season, I have extended the posting date a few days to give everyone more time to respond. =

= Book - //The Queen of Water// Discussion Part 2: Reading must be completed by __January 12th.__ =

Discussion #1: Pages 1 - 100 due by Dec. 15
== Discussion #2: Pages 100 - 200 due by Dec. 29 Is now extended to Thursday, January 3rd. ==

Discussion #3: Pages 200 - end due by Jan 12
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==== **__Posting Directions:__** Keep all initial posts between 100 - 150 words and responses to classmate's between 75 - 100 words. Please adhere to these word counts. [Note: If you type your response in Word, you can highlight your post, go to Tools on the menu bar, then select Word Count from the drop down menu to determine how long you post is.] IMPORTANT: After you write your initial post, end with a series of dashes or === signs so that each person's post can be split from one another. When you RESPOND/COMMENT on a classmates post, type within the dashes of their original post. **See the example below.** ==== ========================================================================================================== **Example**: "Your Name" - This would be my initial Post that would be between 100 - 150 words only. "Classmate's Name" - This would then be the 75 - 100 word response or comment made by a classmate using a different color that appears within ====== marks. This will help us keep our discussions organized. =========================================================================================================== **Discussion #2:** Although //The Queen of Water// is a novel, it is based on a true story. As you read the story, how does knowing that the story is based in reality impact you? What types of impressions are you forming about the country you will visit? What questions does it raise for you? Use a different color for your comments and give your name as you start your statement. You should write an initial statement by Monday, Jan. 31st and one additional responses to another classmate's initial response by Thursday, Jan. 3rd .======================================================================================================== Shari Meyer - Virginia's feeling that "Fear feels familiar. And freedom feels terrifying" (Resau 121) clearly communicates the Stockholm syndrome she must have experienced throughout her time with the Doctorita and Nino Carlitos. When Virginia returns home to Yana Urku as she accompanies the mestizo family on their visit, it would be so easy for her to return to her parents' home. Yet she chooses not to, and it takes her a very long time to call her sister Matilde. This made me wonder whether other mestizo families with indigenous servants would risk bringing their servants so close to their home towns; if so, the willingness would speak volumes to the power of the manipulation that physical and emotional abuse can create. I also liked that this section of the book emphasized thoughts and behaviors common to most teenagers: obsessing about physical appearance (specifically thinness), wanting the approval of one's parents, and being interested in boys.================================================================================================================= Suzanne Missert- This part of the book begins with Virginia's returning home for a brief visit. She says "This is not my house". She isn't the little girl who left home anymore, with her memories of sticking out her tongue at her older sister and fighting over the best of their scant food. Virginia is between worlds, neither of which feels right for her. One of her happiest moments with the Doctorita's family comes after la Docorita beats her and the boys and Nino Carlito gather around her, bringing her tea and loving her. It is one of the rare times she is treated as a family member. Virginia flirts and falls in love with a boy her age and embraces puberty, beginning to notice the effect she has on males. But this section of the book ends with Nino Carlito finally making his attack on Virginia, which has been building up. She is able to escape but better understands now who he is and the danger she is in. This leads to a whole new fight for survival.============================================================================================================ Janine Panechelli- I am amazed at Virginia's resilience. She stays with the Doctorita and Nino Carlito because it is familiar, comfortable, despite the beatings. Hurt from the words her mom said as a child, "I'd be happy if one day you left and never came back", and words she has been told that her parents didn't want her, she believes she is unwanted. Even with finding the Bible and the note from her sister, Virginia is torn. Her memories of her sister are painful, and Matilde was the favored one, her mother's love. For this reason she does not immediately act on it, but waits. She takes comfort in moments of affection shown to her from the Doctorita's family, as well as the affection she receives from the boys and Nino Carlito. As things go from bad to worse, Virginia draws on the tips she has learned from her mad crush MacGyver to orchestrate the fall of the hanging plant onto an unsuspecting Nino Carlito. Although unsuccessful, Virginia proves herself resourceful, and a force to be reckoned with. Shari Meyer - Janine, each aspect of your post highlights the strong desire Virginia feels for a family that will not judge her, be cruel to her, or treat her as if she means less than anyone else. The jealousy that Virginia feels toward her sister Matilde over their mother’s unequal treatment felt so relatable to me. Between my empathy for her and my admiration for her resourcefulness (especially with the MacGyver tricks!), I rooted for her even harder in this second part of the book.

===================================================================================================== Shari Fedorowicz

As I continue to read the book, I constantly have to remind myself through all the rough moments in the book that this IS based on a true story. I can not believe people treat each other like this, especially a little girl. And how does she maintain that positive attitude when most people (authority, parents) treat her really badly? It is a good reminder that not everyone has a comfortable life...that sometimes it is just a matter of survival no matter what. In addition, some people know no other way of living. There is no way out. Makes me think of how my life is (and many others in the US) and how they would trade it in a heatbeat over being a slave, or being beaten. But Virginia always remains positive. It is actually inspiring to me. Not knowing much about Ecuador, I wonder if there are any elements of this lifestyle left. Are the people with the darker skin still considered "indigenous"? Are they less wealthy? We have similar parallels in the US...so why do I feel disturbed by this in Ecuador? Now I will look and wonder while visiting.

Katelyn Barry - (Response to Shari F) To your point, it is important to keep an open mind and open eyes to what is really happening on a global level. It is so easy to get caught up in our own lives, sometimes we forget how other people live and function on a day-to-day basis. I think our trip and experience to Ecuador and the culture will be a great eye-opener and positive experience for so many of us who reside here in a wonderful, democratic country.

================================================================================================= Shari F (Responses to Shari M, Suzanne and Janine) I would be really interested on your thoughts to the second and third part of the question on what your thoughts are on what you expect or what your impressions will be when we get to Ecuador? I find it interesting what other people might think before we go down :-)

Shari M - I am curious about whether indigenous families are still selling their children into slavery as household employees, and whether there are other types of child labor/enslavement at play in Ecuador in the 21st century, such as the factory work done by child and teenaged laborers in China and Southeast Asia. Also, I am wondering what the pace of life will feel like to me in the country. As a native New Yorker who's lived her entire life on the East Coast, I can't even picture myself living in California due to its slow pace. Between what Daniel Fernandez-Davila said about the pace of life in Ecuador and the descriptions of village life provided by Virginia in the novel, I am absolutely anticipating I will feel some culture shock on this trip! Katelyn Barry - (Response to Shari M) - I believe our trip will provide so much insight on all these questions that many of us share. I too have also lived on the east coast my entire life and I am excited and eager to experience the living of a different culture of people. Our experience will be invaluable to our selves and our students as we learn and bring back so much knowledge to our classes. ===================

Andrea R - Shari M, after reading your response and questions about living in California, I had to laugh. I lived in CA for many years, and when I left, I felt as if I was living in NY with all the constant traffic! Traveling back to New England caused such culture shock for me - the pace, the rudeness, how cold people were, etc. Attitudes made me want to move right back to the sunny, warm skies and climate (of the people and the environment). Not that I think we're rude in New England, but we definitely have some Puritan values and attitudes! I love the slower paces of other cultures. I don't think you'll find it so very different in the city, but the suburbs, jungle area, etc., - I'll bet those are different. But, that's what vacations are for, right!

Also: Shari F: I had similar questions as I watched the Netflix documentary on Ecuador. I was shocked to see men who looked African American rather than the typical Incan indigenous face. I think we're going to learn a lot about the Ecuadorian history and culture!

Merideth E - Andrea, I just saw your Netflix video link in the Resources section. Thanks for sharing. I have been looking for documentaries on Ecuador's people, but have not found much. Also, someone (not currently part of our tour group) shared a title of a "must read" called Savages by Joe Kane that might be worth reading.

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Merideth E - Because The Queen of the Water reads like fiction, it was important to keep reminding myself that it is based on a true story. Virgina continues to struggle with identity - very common in any teenager, but particularly troublesome in Virgina's situation. The thought of families relinquishing their children to a life of service to wealthier families is horrifying to me. So, when Virginia finally decides to reconnect with her sister Matilde, a sense of relief warmed my soul.

Several questions about modern-day Ecuador arose as I reviewed the second third of The Queen of Water. First, I wondered how Ecuadorian families in more rural areas (and with fewer means) have adapted to modern living, or if they have maintained their ways of life. I also wondered about opportunities for education in Ecuador. Do current Indigenas value education the way it appears the Mestizos do (according to the story)? Are their studies similar to those in the US? Do they learn in their native language? How does one's education impact his or her life in Ecuador? On a different track, I'm interested in learning more about the impact the land (geography and resources) has. Some of these questions will end up on my KWL. In the meantime, I located a YouTube video (shared on my blog resources page) to help answer some of my questions. ========================================================================================================== Nicole Knowing that the novel is based on a true story I find myself angry and sad to know that people are living in such circumstances. At this point in the novel Virginia is struggling to find her identity, where she belongs?, and what she wants? She is going through so many changes with no one their to offer her guidance and support. Sometimes I ask myself, what would I do if I were Virginia? I have found the separation between the “indigena women” and “mestizo women” interesting. I found myself wondering if the Doctorita was treated this way when she was growing up? Or is this how she saw her mother treat the “indigenas”? How can people treat one another in this manner? I am also curious about the role reversal between the Doctorita and Nino Carlitos. Is this common in Ecuador? Does the separation between the Indigenas and Mestizos continue to exist?

Jo Curran: Hi Nicole! I’ve been interested in that //indigena/mestizo// separation, as well. For instance, are indigenous women proud to wear the traditional dress, or do they feel trapped? And, I’m pretty sure that if I had to weave all day, like many indigenous women, I would come undone. Through conversations I’ve had with indigenous women, it appears the separation is still very strong, and because these women were working in the market for lack of other choices, most felt trapped. I remember when my meztiso friend’s brother (in Mexico) married an //indigena//, the family was not happy that he was mixing the “races.”

=================================== The whole idea of abuse, slavery, indentured slavery, trafficking, etc. continues to bother me as I'm sure it bothers all of us. Today, I watched the movie, "Precious", which was based on a novel about an abused child. She was sexually abused at the age of 3 by her father and was raped twice by him - having two children, the first whom they nicknamed, "Mongo" since she was Down's Syndrome. The second child, a son, was born "normal." Precious's mother hated her because she (Precious) had taken away her husband (are you kidding me?), so emotionally and verbally abused her continually. Precious couldn't stay in school due to the pregnancy. Luckily, the white principal in her Harlem school recommended she go to an alternative school, and Precious gets her life together, learning how to read and write. Right when things seem as if they're going to look up for Precious, she discovers that her father has died of Aids, which, of course, he also has.

Although the story has some very disturbing scenes, there is always the sense of hope through Precious's own control, reminding me very much of Virginia. However, Precious had help from her teacher and social worker, who recognized the abuse Precious underwent. No one helped Virginia, yet she became who she is today. The strength that some people have to overcome such difficulties amazes me. ===================================

Lauren K.

This particular section of the book is filled with so many strong emotions and influential experiences. Virginia learns that her sister is looking for her. This filled me with hope for what might come, but it was also heartbreaking to read Virginia’s longing for someone to love her and to want her. In this section, we see clearly the manipulation at the hands of the Doctorita. She fills Virginia with hopes of a diploma and her own home – things Virginia doesn’t believe she’ll obtain without the Doctorita. We also see Virginia’s relationship with Nino Carlitos change from a safe source of comfort to abuse. It’s hard to envision so many intense experiences happening to one young woman in such a short amount of time. It’s important to remember that they are based on reality.

I wonder how Ecuador acknowledges this aspect of its past (or present) and if there are spaces for open discussion about multicultural diversity. I also wonder how the political and social impact of indigenous groups has changed since Virginia was young.

Response to Nicole:

It is incredibly hard for me to imagine going through these experiences alone. Not only does Virginia not have the love and support of a family, but she also has no friendships, confidants, or mentors. Virginia’s ability to endure these experiences with very few outlets for support and connection is amazing.

Lynne Peloquin Discussion #2 Chronologically, Virginia is still a child but in life she has the responsibility of an adult caring for the Doctorita and Niño Carlitos young children. Virginia is living a life of trauma, abuse and oppression. She has no confidante to rely upon for guidance. The very people she depends upon are spontaneously violent and unpredictable. Virginia finds mentors and inspiration in the small acts of kindness she experiences with occasional human contact, in her books and in the roles of television personalities. These experiences feed her hopes, desire and confidence. One positive relationship, having someone believe in you, can have a tremendous impact on the emotional health of a developing child.

Nicole 1/3/13: Response to Lynne Lynne, It was hard for me to picture Virginia being ripped from her childhood and thrown into adulthood with no guidance, love or support. It amazes me that she is able to stay hopeful with so much darkness and very little light. But I completely agree with you in that having that one positive influence can make all the difference in someone's life.

Lynne Peloquin-- Response #2 Merideth/Katy--Virginia was amazingly resilient. In life she is a prisoner but in her hopes and dreams she can achieve anything. Each oppressive experience in life triggers a plan. The Doctorita can physically restrict/lock her in, but she cannot lock her hope, imagination, or her desire. The desire and experience of belonging is one the most important dimensions in emotional health. Virginia struggles with this her whole life; the separation from her family, observing the access to education, experiences and resources restricted to some; existing in one world or the other until she gradually finds the strength/confidence to being these worlds together.

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Katelyn Barry - The events in this story continue to surprise and shock me as a reader, teacher, and individual, because it is hard to imagine these horrific events still take place during this time period. Cleary there are many cultural differences between Ecuador and the United States and it does not leave me with a positive impression of the country. Since I was fortune enough to grow up in a country that values human rights, it is hard to fully comprehend the cruelty that Virginia endures as a child then a teenager.

I wonder what will be the largest cultural difference we experience during our visit to Ecuador. I also wonder if the culture is significantly different depending on the region of the country. As an early childhood educator, I also wonder how families value education. Do they believe it is critical to the child’s success or is it still undervalued as we saw in Virginia’s case?

Toby Adams (response to Katelyn Barry) I wonder if families are just valuing what is important to them. I had a parent say in an IEP meeting "Why does my child need a special program, he is fine. He is good boy. He follows the rules. He is a hard worker. He is polite. What more does he need?" This went from bad to worse when the principal yelled "Give your son a chance" and the father replied " I have, I have raised him to be a good man and a hard worker". This erupted it a true loud angry argument. The principal stormed out and the father did not return to the school for 2 years. It was just a clash of two cultures, where I came to realize that everyone loved and cared about the child and were doing what they thought best, just from two totally different perspectives. I wonder about this in Ecuador. What do they want for their children and how do they expect or foresee themselves giving this to their children? Or are the children working for their parents hopes and dreams?

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Jo Curran: #2 Too often we hear of cases of repeated physical abuse, repeated because the person being abused doesn’t leave. I thought the author did a great job in helping me understand this. When reading about Virginia’s life, my first instinct was to urge her to run away, disappear, create a new life. But as I exhausted each option, with the protagonist, and remembered the negative messages, that are all too easy to believe, from a sister and mother who “sent her away,” we both realized that there was no place to go. The author provided a glimpse inside Virginia’s conflicted mind, as she visits a family she doesn’t know and lives with one that doesn’t consider her family. As she comes of age, we see a real struggle in Virginia, trying to figure out who she is.

Dan Norton, Response to Jo Curran​ I agree that victims often stay with the people who abuse them. Maybe it's because they don't know any other way, or because they have lost so much of their self esteem. Virginia knows she has no other choice. The struggles Virginia faces trying to understand herself are common to all children as they grow up, but, as you say, the extra conflict Virginia faces adds to her struggle. Everyone wants to be accepted and loved, and even though it's hard to understand, so many people cling to the very people or things that hurt them most. ====================================================================================================== Toby Adams #2 Remembering tha ist this story is true was very easy for me but also very sad as well. It reminded me of some of the students I have worked with over the years. They are not living a childhood they are surviving one. As I wished that she would run away, or disappear I knew that this was unlikely. I have so many children believe that how they are raised is who they are and that is why our jobs are so important for the students who are living in abuse. As far a questions about the country: I am wondering about the traditional dress, is it still worn and if so it with pride? What are women's and girls rights? If they have rights are they followed not just with the law but also with the culture and attitude climates? Are there still separations between classes? If so what are Ecuador's peoples views on it? Do the children of all areas/classes go to school? If no then is it because it is not important or because they are unable. ============================================================================================================ Dan Norton #2 Knowing that Virginia's story is based on truth makes it even more powerful. And the fact that she is just nine years old adds to the sadness. Abuse of anyone is horrible to think about, but when it comes to a child, it is more disturbing. It just doesn't seem like it could happen in this time period. That is probably because I am mostly surrounded by children who come from loving families with support and comfort. But not all children have what they need. Even in our own country, in our own towns, though maybe not as troubling as Virginia's story, some children do not have wonderful lives. Those children lose their innocence quickly. Life isn't always fair. In Ecuador, I wonder what traditional family values we will see. Some things, like parents' love for their children and their goal for them to have a good future, are universal and not confined to any one culture, I don't think. I wonder how parents in Ecuador help their children to succeed. Do they value education? Hard work? Are all children given opportunities?

Merideth E - Dan, I just read an disturbing current article (published in January 2013) about an infant who was found abandoned in a box in Ecuador. The first account was factual, but the "update" stated that the infant was later discovered to be "handicapped." What was especially troubling was the "tone" that the abandonment might actually be excused due to the circumstances. Though I'm fairly certain this is not common practice in Ecuador, it does make me wonder how tolerance of differences and family members are valued in Ecuador today. Virginia's story is not so distant in the past. Might we experience a community of people in transition while on our study tour?

Suzanne Missert (in response to Meredith E): It is interesting and sad to think about babies being abandoned/thrown out world wide. Here in the U.S., we have the arrangement that a parent can drop off a baby at designated places such as hospitals or police stations, no questions asked, in an effort to stop newborns from being discarded. Did the article you read say what was going to happen to the baby; was anyone conming forward to help? =========================================================================================================